So the CIA and others are defending the use of torture (sorry “enhanced interrogation techniques”) with the tried-and-true excuse of “We were told it was OK.”
And that has some Republicans, amazingly, saying it’s a Bad Idea to prosecute the people who did the torturing, because it would — get this — make CIA officers today feel like they have people looking over their shoulders, and fearful that a subsequent administration might find what they’re doing to be criminal.
And how, they ask, can they do their job if they’re worried about being second guessed?
How about this, guys: Many of us know when something we’re doing is wrong. Really. Like, say, torturing someone. If it’s not clear in your mind whether something like torture is good or bad, maybe you need someone looking over your shoulder.
And as for the incredibly inane argument that we shouldn’t prosecute people who thought they were acting legally — well, isn’t that just a 2009 version of “I was just following orders”?
In fact, it’s worse.
The Nazi footsoldiers claimed at Nuremburg that they perpetrated their evil because they were ordered to. We we didn’t accept that. But our guys are only claiming they were given permission to torture — not ordered, permitted. Unlike the Nazis, they had the option to torture and found nothing wrong with it.
If they think that torture represents an acceptable practice for a representative of the United States of America, they damn well ought to be prosecuted. And anyone who’s worried about having someone look over his shoulder? Good.
The Fray
Bob Francis says:
In some civilized countries, people have been hanged for less!
Start with GW.
Bob
gnomic says:
CIA report says torture doesn’t work: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66895.html
Gnomic Says Cheney should serve hard time. Perhaps Gitmo can be repurposed.
Randy says:
You know, Andrew, I don’t think I’ve seen another person make that very obvious point that these people were permitted to torture and many chose to use that permission. I hadn’t even considered that stance, but you are right that it is even worse than the “just following orders” situation.
Sadly, I’ve been arguing (on the internet, no less, and we all know what that means) on Digg and with friends on FaceBook that torture is wrong no matter the circumstance. Most of the people I’ve had this conversation with hold up the (thouroughly debunked) prevention of the Library Tower attack as “proof” that it works and the “ticking time bomb” rationalization of why we must do this. I prefer to look back to Winston Churchill and his refusal to torture (thanks Pres. Obama for pointing this out).
Leland says:
It will be interesting to see if you all have the same position after we lose a couple cities under the new kinder, gentler administration. The amount of naivety expressed on this subject is a testament to how completely out of touch the American public is with the realities of today’s world.
gnomic says:
Leland,
Ah, the great GOP hope. When the terrorists strike – and they will – the GOP will blame it on the dems and claim vindication. Of course, under thier logic, the death penality that they LOVE stopped all crime. If America just treated the entire world like we own it and kill off everyone who disagrees, we will be safer. Adn the fact that the GOP have created and stregthened our enimies is completely false.
Its a sad, small, twisted world you live it. And its completly in your mind.
And what is happening now is the will of the people. What you don’t like is democracy. When the GOP was in power, it did everything possible to break the law and ignore the Constitution. The GOP didn’t bring freedom to Iraq, it brought a dictatorship home.
The GOP believes that Government is the problem. And they want to get elected to ensure that it is so. And they are fearful that someone might prove otherwise.
gnomic says:
What amazes me it that some claim reveling torture information puts the US at risk. Maybe, if you plan to keep torturing. Which apparently is what they hope for.
I’m just glad that people are realizing that they have been lied to. Once again, in a democracy, our leaders lied to us. “We don’t torture” and “We are not breaking the law” Well, they did on both counts. And they new that it was illegal and that they had to deceive us.
That is called violating the oath of office. And breaking the law. And war crimes.
If you are outraged or pretended to be outraged about Clinton lied about sex and are not outraged about this, just admit your are simply a partisan hypocrite.
Obama is wrong about prosecuting these crimes. Yes, it is politically inconvenient. But crime is terribly inconvenient – especially if you are the victim. And we – America – have been victimized.
Our leaders did not stand up for what America believes. Our beliefs are our laws. Our beliefs are our treaties. Our belief is that open and free debate brings about intellectually rational change.
Instead, these men and women of high station and low morals lied to us, deceived us, and acted as if our beliefs were both immaterial and not sufficient to carry us forward.
They committed treason to the very ideal and soul of our beliefs and who we are (or were) as a people. The sold the moral high ground cheaply, and laid us all low with their cowardice.
And they expect that they can continue to make us fearful, to make us continue to act as sheep, to make us impotent as a nation and to fail to hold them accountable.
We are obligated to hold them accountable. It is our responsibility by law and by treaty. It is our duty as Americans to right this wrong so that future generations know that this, torture, we do not do. It is not about what our enemies deserve; it about who we are and wish to be.
In America, with Justice and Liberty for All.